The future of the island of Ireland, with Sinn Féin's Matt Carthy TD

Confronting reunification and avoiding pitfalls

Matt Carthy, Sinn Féin TD for Cavan-Monaghan, and party spokesperson for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, discusses past, present and future with Peter Sloman, Professor of British Politics at POLIS and Fellow of Churchill College, Cambridge. Carthy believes “Now is the time [...] to talk about Irish unity.” But what will Irish reunification look like? How can Unionists be involved in shaping it? How can it avoid the pitfalls of the Brexit referendum? And, in the meantime, how should the Republic of Ireland approach issues such as the Northern Ireland Protocol, and ones in Carthy’s own domain such as sustainable agriculture and fishing? 

Scroll on to discover:

• Executive summary
• About the speaker and discussant
• Watch the conversation
• What was said?

Executive summary

• Irish reunification could and should be pursued in the near future. Institutional and democratic processes could be used to shape a successful united Ireland, and Unionists should be involved in reunification. Carthy addresses issues such as the Northern Ireland Protocol, transport and sustainable agriculture and fishing, while insisting that these policy problems could be resolved more effectively in a united Ireland.
• Sinn Féin is committed to improving housing access, increasing healthcare provision “across regions and socioeconomic backgrounds”, “securing an economy that’s stable” and “underpinned by fairness and a regional balance”, and offering a climate strategy that includes and involves “ordinary workers, families and communities”. 
• Ireland is “better placed addressing those challenges in a united country”, with removing the border and unifying social services with the North an economic “no brainer”. As an example of the negative effects of partition on public services, Carthy notes how border regions are particularly badly served by transport infrastructure - Donegal, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Cavan and Monaghan have “not a single mile” of railway. 
• The Good Friday Agreement’s border poll provisions offer a “peaceful, democratic process for reunification”. He believes initial referenda favouring reunification should be followed by a cross-border citizens’ assembly, and Oireachtas committees including Northern parties. Unionists must partake and be included in these processes to outline their needs in a united Ireland. Once a “clear road map” has been decided, more referenda could then sanction the arrangements for reunification, to avoid being left “scratching our heads” after the result is announced, as occurred with Brexit post-June 2016.
• There are “three Fs” for achieving an environmentally and economically-sustainable Irish farming sector. These are a fair CAP (Common Agricultural Policy), ending the “obscenities” of large corporations monopolizing subsidies at the expense of family farms, and incentivizing carbon sequestration, fair prices to promote organic farming, and fair play (if Irish farmers agree to lower production, their prices should not be undercut through disadvantageous trade agreements with other agricultural exporters).
• To protect Irish fish stock and marine ecosystems, Carthy wants a re-examination of EU fishing quotas in the Irish Sea, restrictions on boat size, particularly targeting environmentally destructive supertrawlers, and action to ensure replenishment of fish stocks. Ireland should make its agreement to any future EU treaty-change conditional on this. 
• Issues with the Northern Ireland Protocol have been “grossly exaggerated” and can be “overcome”. He has been “quite impressed” by the EU’s engagement with potential issues and alternative solutions, whilst “the British government’s role in all of this has been entirely destructive” and "careless". Carthy wants the EU to “stand strong” over Northern Ireland, and the British government to “wise up and back off”.

About the speaker

Matt Carthy is Sinn Féin spokesperson for agriculture, food and the marine in the Houses of the Oireachtas (the Irish parliament). He was first elected to public office as a Carrickmacross town councillor in 1999, becoming the council’s first Sinn Féin member and, at twenty one years-old, Ireland’s youngest elected representative. He has since served as the town Mayor, Mayor of Monaghan County Council, a Member of the European Parliament from 2014-20 and, since 2020, a Teachta Dála for Cavan-Monaghan. Matt was a founding member of Ógra Shinn Féin, the party’s youth wing, and served as the party's National Organiser. Matt continues to represent the border constituency of Cavan-Monaghan.

About the discussant

Peter Sloman is Professor of British Politics at POLIS and a Fellow of Churchill College. His research focusses on political ideas, public policy, and electoral politics in modern Britain.

Watch the conversation

What was said?

In the closing remarks of this talk, Barry Colfer notes how rare it’s been in his time at Cambridge University to have a representative of Sinn Féin at an event. Until 1994, both the British and Irish governments banned radio and television broadcasters from featuring Sinn Féin officials’ voices, in light of the party’s support for, and alleged links to, republican paramilitarism. Matt Carthy recalls that, in the 1990s, leaving Sinn Féin’s Belfast headquarters “invariably meant a conversation with some friendly Special Branch men”. Niamh Gallagher notes that, decades after Sinn Féin’s engagement with the peace process, and involvement in numerous power-sharing administrations in Northern Ireland, in Britain, the party is still mostly associated with the Troubles. However, Carthy is focused on the future of Ireland, which he feels “very positive” about.

Carthy was born in Birmingham, England in 1977, to Irish parents. His family soon returned to the Republic, and he recalls that, “the greatest insult I could be given in the schoolyard was to be called an Englishman”, an attitude he’s since moved past. In what became a formative childhood experience, Carthy and his family travelled over the border from Co. Monaghan to South Armagh in Northern Ireland, and encountered a patrol of British soldiers, whom he likens to the “modern day black and tans”. It was a “very aggressive, hostile experience”, and he “couldn’t imagine what it would be like to live under that all the time”. 

Over the course of his political career, he has witnessed and been involved in the growth of Sinn Féin on both sides of the border – the party won the plurality of votes in both the 2019 Irish general election, and (since this talk), in the 2022 Northern Ireland Assembly election. 

Carthy sees the partition of 1921 as an “absolute travesty that was imposed on our country”, and one which the time is ripe to “undo”. He senses a public appetite for reunification – “ordinary people are way ahead of politicians on this”, and it is being discussed “every day around dinner tables, in pubs, in bars, in community centres, in seminars like this”. He believes the Irish government “regrettably sees its role as reigning in the debate, rather than facilitating it”, and warns that, “History will judge harshly those that try to avoid the opportunity, that constantly look for opportunities not to pursue a project that they know will best serve our people”.

Carthy sees the Good Friday Agreement as imperfect and ambiguous in certain areas, but does think it offers a “peaceful, democratic process for reunification”. This would involve referenda, presumably in both the Republic and the North, which would require the involvement of the British government. If majorities in both the North and Republic favoured reunification, Carthy envisions a “clear road map” for the terms of reunification being worked out through Oireachtas committees and an all-Ireland citizens’ assembly. Voters across the island could then sanction a clear set of arrangements for reunification with more referendums, to avoid being left “scratching our heads”, as occurred after the Brexit vote in June 2016. 

Carthy emphasises the importance of Unionist involvement in discussions on reunification, both now in public discourse and once the terms of reunification are being formally decided. He says it is not for him to dictate what guarantees and concessions Unionists need for reunification - Unionism is a “broad political philosophy”, encompassing a multitude of demographics with different views, “needs and wants”. Carthy wants the debate over reunification to be an “inclusive space”, and Unionist groups to engage with it. He accepts, for instance, that despite his own “very strong views” on what the flag and national anthem of a united Ireland should be, he wouldn’t necessarily get his way. 

Carthy also discusses Sinn Féin’s domestic policy agenda. He details the party’s commitment to improving housing and healthcare provision across Ireland, “securing an economy that’s stable” and “underpinned by fairness and a regional balance”, and offering a climate strategy that includes and involves “ordinary workers, families and communities”. He insists that these policy goals would be more easily achieved in a united Ireland, and that political change in the Republic should not be prioritised over, or used to delay, reunification; all Sinn Féin’s policies are designed to be “all-Ireland proof”, and Carthy argues that a united Ireland would have a “bigger, stronger economy” than the current sum of its parts, whilst unified public services would operate more efficiently and effectively. As an example of the negative effects of partition on public services, Carthy notes how border regions are particularly badly served by transport infrastructure – Donegal, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Cavan and Monaghan have “not a single mile” of railway between them. In his closing remarks, Peter Sloman notes the “steep uphill challenge” faced by a future Sinn Féin government, carrying out a genuinely radical economic agenda whilst also pursuing a united Ireland. 

Of course, Carthy would prefer if there were no Irish border at all, but for the moment he believes the Northern Ireland Protocol offers a workable compromise to prevent a hard border between North and South. He believes the problems with the NIP have been “grossly exaggerated”, and the British government has played an “entirely destructive” role in disputes over the Protocol, “playing games with the peace in our country”. He contrasts this with the European Union’s flexibility and compromise. Carthy has a succinct message for both – the EU should “stand strong”, and the British government should “wise up and back off”.