08.11.24
Monday 11 October 2021
Rugby and reconciliation
The IOI team talks to Hugo MacNeill, Irish rugby international and Chairman of the British-Irish Association, about reconciliation and mutual trust and how these are needed to advance peace in Northern Ireland and the Republic. What does true reconciliation look like? Does it need to be led by politicians or by civilian groups? Is emotion driving politics rather than reason? Why do political parties not push for more reconciliation and how can this be changed? How does improved tolerance suit the constitutional aims of unionism and nationalism? Plus we talk about the role of sport in reconciliation and whether rugby has a unique culture that helps build bridges.
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- Executive summary
- About the speaker and discussant
- Watch the conversation
- What was said
Executive summary
Hugo MacNeill, Irish rugby international and Chairman of the British-Irish Association, questions whether enough focus is put on reconciliation efforts in Ireland and Northern Ireland.
- There is a lack of ‘generosity of spirit’ in efforts to understand and respect identities, with many in the Republic assuming unification will happen naturally once the Catholic population in Northern Ireland reaches a majority.
- Sport has offered MacNeill a pathway for travelling the island and meeting people in a positive light where identity isn’t threatened.
- He wants more fronts where this interaction is possible, and more consistent efforts to understand one another. This wouldn’t just aid the nationalist constitutional aim for a unified Ireland but is also necessary for the unionist constitutional aim for Northern Ireland to be a respected and cohesive part of the UK.
- He recommends a more concerted effort on all fronts to strive for reconciliation and understanding, including integrated education and participation in the "Shared Ireland" Initiative. He also thinks British-Irish relations, which have been strained by Brexit, need to be improved in parallel.
About the speaker
Hugo MacNeill has been involved in North-South and British-Irish relations all his adult life having been involved with the British Irish Association since 2000 and Chairman since 2013. Hugo has been on the Board of the Ireland Fund of Great Britain and Chairman of the Ireland Fund in Dublin. He is a former Irish Rugby International and in 1996 after the Canary Wharf bombing he, together with his former international teammate Trevor Ringland, organised the Peace International initiative which brought a team of the world's best rugby players to Dublin to play Ireland as a message of solidarity to all who were working for peace in Ireland. The guests of honour were children whose lives were tragically affected by the loss of parents and siblings. Alongside and following the end of his rugby career, MacNeill worked for Goldman Sacchs and has served as chairman of several charities, including the British-Irish Association (the BIA’s main function is to bring together various groups once a year to discuss shared concerns). In 2020 he resigned from Goldman Sacchs and stood for election to the Seanad Éireann and came fourth.
About the discussants
Dr Barry Colfer is a research fellow in politics at St Edmund's College, University of Cambridge.Professor Eugenio Biagini is professor of Modern British and European History at Sidney Sussex College, University of Cambridge.
Watch the conversation
What was said?
Reconciliation and mutual trust are things that both major traditions on the island of Ireland should be working towards in order to achieve their respective constitutional aims. For Unionism, its desire to be a cohesive part of the UK requires Northern Ireland to be seen in a more positive light. For Nationalism, Hugo thinks it unlikely that voters in the Republic will opt for unification with Northern Ireland if it isn’t at peace with itself. He argued that the lack of trust and understanding comes from both sides and there needs to be greater emphasis on ‘generosity of spirit’. Understandably, Hugo turned to sporting examples for how this might be achieved. The 1996 Peace International saw Ireland face the Barbarians at Lansdowne Road, the latter including South Africa’s Francois Pienaar whose jersey had been worn by Nelson Mandela in his own peace-making campaign following the end of apartheid. Mandela, to Hugo, embodies the ‘generosity of spirit’ that Northern Ireland so badly needs.
Eugenio opened the discussion with his observation that rugby and politics often went together. In Northern Ireland, both emotion and reason go hand in hand. In British affairs, he argued emotion more often wins. Since the Brexit vote in 2016, Northern Ireland appears to be following this pattern more strongly. The interests of political parties go against reconciliation. He asked how can we persuade the two parties who are doing so well to change tact when self-interest suggests they shouldn’t? For Hugo, the matter of relationships is central and the recent growth in the middle-ground (i.e. non-aligned voters) is also key. He also responded that reconciliation is in the political interest of both major traditions if they want to achieve their constitutional aims. Eugenio asked if parties in Northern Ireland are rewarded electorally for pushing hard in one direction. Brexit, for example, almost brought a hard-border and has demonstrated that pushing hard in one direction can be fruitful. MacNeill pushed back against Eugenio’s suggestion that parties are rewarded electorally for divisive politics; although Sinn Féin were rewarded in recent elections, the DUP suffered.
When asked about the demographic shift towards more Catholics in Northern Ireland than Protestants, Hugo disagreed with the assumption that a demographic majority will bring about Irish unification. He stressed the need for a shared home; nationalists don’t currently consider enough what concessions may be needed to foster a peaceful, multi-community united Ireland. In the Republic, his sense is that many assume it will happen eventually, an event that will simply unfold, rather than one that needs active working towards. Topics like the NHS, finding a meaningful role for Stormont, and potentially rejoining the Commonwealth need to be kept on the table in order to change the constitution in a way that is inclusive, rather than threatening.
Questions from the floor asked Hugo what can feasibly be done to encourage this building of trust and reconciliation. His response once again stressed a generosity of spirit at all levels, but also for political leaders and civic leaders to spearhead a focus on reconciliation. It will also require people reaching out and demanding such efforts to be taken by political parties. Citizens assemblies can be one such venue where this happens. When asked about civic platforms (given that the Good Friday Agreement calls for these, and they have risen and fallen with Stormont), Hugo responded that the more vehicles being used to raise reconciliation as an active process, the better. He thinks that reconciliation and trust are often considered ‘soft topics’ that are ‘nice to have’ and can be converted into ‘hard topics’ by having institutions and bodies pursuing them. What else can be done to convert reconciliation into practice? Are there any out-of-the-box ideas that people haven’t yet tried? Hugo believes that the simple act of talking and interacting is the way forward, but that it needs to happen on all levels. He pointed out that since Brexit, British and Irish officials are meeting less.
Another audience member asked what makes rugby so uniquely popular and successful in Ireland. Hugo pointed out the obvious that people often enjoy what they’re good at and Ireland’s talent at rugby – and the relatively closed nature of its international stage which means it can compete and stand out at a global level – brings something that Ireland can be proud of. For Hugo, it also offers paths towards building the mutual trust he thinks the island lacks. From a personal perspective, rugby has given him the opportunity to travel across the island, North and South, East and West, and meet people in contexts separate from politics. His own experiences in Northern Ireland he described as “always positive”, something that he thinks many in the Republic could benefit from if they pushed themselves to visit. When asked if he would ever attend an Orange Order march, Hugo pointed out that he attended an Orange march in 2019 and “it was great”. He has tried to always go to things he’s invited to in Northern Ireland, particularly if they’re important to different traditions and aren’t intended as threatening or adversarial.
A final question, “do you anticipate a united Ireland?”, brought Hugo back to sports analogies – you cannot expect a gold medal at the Olympics without doing the training. For Hugo, Ireland cannot expect progress towards unification without doing the work on reconciliation.
